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we are delighted this evening to presentyou a designer's innovative approach to branding storytelling and experiencedesign with jim doyle and jim has taken the road less traveled and has developedan amazing career in branding and storytelling and has lots to share withus he's the co-founder and chief creative officer of moving brands aglobal company that has offices in san francisco new york zurich and london andhe has worked on such amazing brands such as netflix nokia sony stellamccartney among others and he has a real wonderful agency and a lot of work toshow you this evening so without further ado please welcome jim boyle thank youthank you very much as always great to

be invited here to speak to you nowmoving brands or is it all new t you know you can't say that you wellthats first i just like to know how much people know the more of this that's aconversation i think the better i've got tons of work i can show you and i cantalk the hind legs off the camera so i can just talk and talk and talk i shouldapologize for the accent i've got british accent i'm from originally but ido live in san francisco again i question when i say any question peoplelike do you live here you live in new york where do you live here in sanfrancisco and about i just this is me my bad little bit shorter at the moment andwas within this file free some places

don't like people on the devices i thinkit's a good thing if you wanna talk about this or instagram about this ikind of made this this is you guys this is making me feel brand he has like jimspeaks that's what i use when i got two different conferences and speak atdifferent things you can just use that and say whatever you like to think i'mtalking rubbish say so i think im saying some good stuff say so as well i thought it might be interesting tohave had a long career i thought it might be interesting the start way backi'm originally from this little place called the isle of wight in the uk andif you know that we're really proud of

the fact that we have this post calledit's a very tiny island right off the south coast of england its shape of adiamond and this always used to make me laugh as a kid i think this is thebeginnings of liking graphics to be honest cuz i used to think that this wasthe most wonderful thing ever but they we've gotten names they're like like sosomeone somewhere along time someone i think the victorians quite funny to say like that you canstand on all new people cannot vote to override where you work anyway this ishilarious on the isle of wight there's not very many people believe that it'squite costo vary quite a surfing and

stuff there as well but it's very verysort of small place really famous for the isle of wight festival which iswhere jimi hendrix and lets people played way back when it was kinda likethe british woodstock this one was back in nineteen seventy but i think thereare few before that and the other thing is famous for his i think of cowes weekwhich is kinda like the around the world but rights and all that kind of stuffbut it's basically a big yachting regatta happens every year i just wantedto give you some context where i'm from come from a really small place i'veended up to the traveling a lot and living in a few countries and i thinkit's always nice sort of gays back and

see what you've come from anyway when ihit about seventeen i got really bored of living on the ottawa it was abrilliant place to grow up as a kid but a terrible place to be a teenager takinga teenager that's doesn't get interested in girls drinking cars and you knowcreativity and i was looking around me for like other great people do i do thisstuff we have and i decided i was gonna leave that so i went and studied a placecool beans which is a pretty good college in london i don't know how muchyou know people like gilbert and george studied there r alexander mcqueen fashion designerlots and lots of different people

started at this place so i kind of wentthere had a brilliant time three years degree course splashing paint aroundpicking up cameras we were making films we would get advertising we were doinghand-printed type we were doing all kinds of things photography was allkinds of sort of parts of this is a really big course i think at one pointhad almost 400 people on the course and i remember we start the computer roomthat's probably the size of the this middle bank tables and there was twelvecomputers in their max least that the whole course you can always had our ownone cuz you know about that i did have a mobile phone into a graduate three yearslater but is really great cause it to us

to thinking offbeat to not be relying onthe to be reliant on creative thinking and how you can tell stories in the mosteffective way and that was really good grounding because we weren't we weren'tactually trained in the tools of graphic mark making we were trained in thethinking behind how you come over concept in an idea about what my makingit says it's fundamentally different i think is quite different to the waydesigners tour more and more often now it's got more and more popular i washaving a talk with some people who recently graduated and i was saying thatwhen we were studying graphic design graphic design course we're actuallybeing taught and told that we were

getting talked things that the rest ofthe world didn't quite understand and i think that was true back then it wassuch a long time ago that it wasn't a popular thing to do wasn't that populari think study and now it's a really popular things to do and it's a reallypopular study but i think as that's evolved more it's become more and moreand more and more about the tools to make you effective at designing asopposed to breeding you to be a creative thinker to come up with ideas and tosolve problems through creativity anyway had a brilliant kind of baptism indesign and when we graduated i we basically learn that we

they told us that we were in control ofour own destiny so when we graduated a few weeks laterwe basically five friends there's any foreign this picture because it can findone of our favorites in this is back in 1998 and we just set up our own business straight out we don't go work in awarehouse thing i did it work experience a few places and kind of like got thefeel of the playland but straight out of college basis set pieces up a businessin london and the only reason since we had was enough money for one months rentbecause back then having to space with an important thing is not really thatimportant about having a physical space

was really important we had two laptopswhich we had bank lines to get them we had one text of the report of one of theguys go friends he was kind enough to the bar and we had we gave ourselves forweeks to make enough money to pay next month's rent for some people often askme when is the right time to stop business when you know that you're readywhen do you know that you're prepared to do so i don't know the answer to that ithink is just like you have to feel for yourself and get that right but havingfour weeks to earn enough money to pay next month's rent was pretty motivatingto say the least there was no way that we could you know that we we basicallygave ourselves a task and we had to get

that done fortunately we achieve that wehave achieved that there will be no moving brands that we kind of water thateach other with money between us i'm gonna get job here i'm go get a job herethat would have been there but fortunately we did win a few jobs irolling in and that's how it started was basically the act of doing and italked about that a lot of people on a firm believer in the active doing italked about concepts and thinking actually when it comes to business it'sthe actually actually just doing something and even if you don't knowquite what you're heading for the active during will make things happen theactive not doing definitely doesn't make

things happen it just you know nothingkind of happened but now in 2015 100 friends and this is why we talk aboutourselves you know where the founders i started the business hundred people moving brands that weconsider friends and we purposely keep moving brands i saw is across the streetis that we got that weed more or less know every 100 it's quite difficult toknow 1992 enables 2001 and the whole businesses sharing work across all ofour studios and working jointly on lots and lots of different types of workbased in san francisco syriac london and more recently in new york the last sortof 12 or 16 months or so before i live

in san francisco in my new role veryoften in new york as well i came to san francisco for years ago my task was tobuild a team that was probably five people up to something like 25 and we'vekind of done that now i think we're about 27 28 people here in san francisconew york's kind of in the same position i think we've got six people was sevenpeople in new york right now it's in a shared workspace we've just negotiateour own shit is based on its side of broadway and you know i'm using my timeto go over there build that out because coming fromlondon to another country building enough cda without really knowing anyonehow things work here in this country but

kind of believing that i could do itanyway taught me a lot so now if i can help tonew york and do that i mean francisco further plans to grow and hope to otherplaces in the usa is it such a rife boy and market at some of the other placeswhere are in any way things we do just planning comes that's probably what youknow ask for is pretty an identity design bringing communications designbasis the graphic design and branding and you know making of communicationsfor businesses but we will see two experiences on which is more product andso that stuff like website with tons of the biggest websites in the world butmoving brands has always been a bit

quiet about that not really cool to us outside agencyalthough i see if we pulled out a separate business and made it somethingto be one of the big data digital agencies just pulled out and thenanything cool basis i'm where contracts to come into us and saying we need a newproduct that's gonna aim at this age demographic for this certain type ofperson can you were to actually create what these new products are how how theymight go to market and then we must create the brand and then when it comesto this is a much earlier stage we're actually kind of bringing the productslike to start with and we've done that

kind of work for a whole bunch of peopleyou heard about some of the people that we have before but there's the kind ofreally big tech companies particularly those working in making products youknow something about our offer that resonates well there's been a fashion inhere that finance that's very big companies and then it's very smallcompanies such as a whole bunch of start-up businesses from here in the bayarea done quite a few days now and then other ones in the uk like the bbcnetflix is why not release posted by kind of talk about it a little bit nowand arcadia which is another fashion one so it's kind of like there's a lot oftech in that but it's very broad and

pharmacy in some fashion in there is allkinds of people so we're quite good work with a client who wants to change andwe're really good at helping them actually achieve that that change thatmoment where they need to communicate and we talked about what we do is storysystems and people miss my last boys like but i think but any project i thinkcan be broken down into these things and actually i think this is a way ofthinking about creativity in some respects it this is written in a waythat's very sort of brand of rock lines i think you think about this is a way ofthinking about what you're trying to do for any creative task first thing iswhat's the story at the heart of what

you're doing that in the case of what wedo stories that drive businesses products and services so what is it thatwere doing well i sometimes clients what is it that you're doing what's uniqueabout what you're doing and why should anyone give a shit and that that'sreally important because anyone can say they've got the best people we've gotthe best ecology we've got the best services werefaster bigger brighter showing whatever it is that's not a real difference areal differences why why does it taste what is the reason why this place isdifferent that's a credible real unique difference you can identify that you'rea real good winner this is the same if

your tryna make a painting or trying todesign a piece of furniture whatever is what's the truth at the heart of whatyou're trying to do that's going to be the thing that's the story when she gotthe story basically what other systems that can make that happen all ok systemsare designed for brand so that's the identity systems i for us once you gotthe stories like the logo the color palette the icons the photography ismoving image work as advertised in work how does it all fit together one of theunique objects and graphic elements that you use and combined together to bringthese things to life and then finally and this is a bit like what's the pointof all that but it's all about people

and experiences that engage those peopleso if you can as an agency sort of debate over all of this year in a reallygood place because of colonizing come to you get concept goes get a story create something we've got real purposein the world then they know they can come to you and get really greatbranding design communications there in service of that story and then thosesystems are in place to enable grace period just happened so they also knowthat when they make a website when they make a film when they do advertisingit's all gonna come to life in a cohesive and interesting way just togive you some light local bits of work

that you might see the street a lot thisthing called flywheel is one of things we did actually about every year and hotguy maybe even longer two years ago but the grad gradually got more and morepopular than i see them everywhere sigh this is my driving back from siliconvalley other day i didn't take this while i was driving i promise and yousee these everywhere now sort of joke that if i see a fly will call that meansi'm getting near san francisco has so many of themwith you guys cds on the street so this is a brand that we developed all aboutthe brand identity what it meant how do you bring that july 2012 say another onethat's around a lot is this thing called

if only if only is an experienced itskinda like it's a place where you can buy and find unique experiences that youcan't find anywhere else so you can do things i really expensive out here likearound the gulf of tiger woods but you can also buy things like twitter bad youcan send to someone for a dollar on their birthday that's from some famouspop star justin bieber or something so there's kind of price range for a whilebut these are all unique experiences very very unique brands and on the drivein from all over the bay bridge at the moment this billboard there and it'sonly me stuff as well so some of these things very localized wanna show you thecontext of some of the local startup

brands i don't show you some houses thefun stuff so this is a project that we completed i don't know maybe half yearago maybe a little bit longer for a brand called even steven is how do youdescribe what the one of the largest our communitiesonline at any one time its website is ranked in the top 20 of hits lots ofimages that you get served up in google knows all things actually images of theday even as well but it's a huge huge huge based community where people canupload their work get critique from other people also getcommissions they can print things out they can do all kinds of stuff but theproblem they had was a decade or so

guide device this guy and what they werefinding was when they were going into conversations with very big brands thatmight want to do sponsorship on that because their base unit 8 demographic oflike 15 25 and there's millions and millions of people on this day actuallythey've got a graffiti artist on their website who's the most viewed artists inthe world at any moment because his are is really really popular is getting lotsand lots of use all the time says more view the davinci in a day because he'son this tv in our community and they need a refresher brand cause wasn'tcommunicating in the right way they were fine and they were not able to lookcredible enough to handle the numbers

they had all the stats ahead of stuffbut they didn't really look credible enough to sponsors and also they werefine in that the community didn't have a lot of our way to represent itself thatthey could be really really proud over there was gonna make them or see themwell for the future so we went on this journey to change and from this familywhich looks like a sort of various nineties skate brand to this thing onthe right which is cool with this i get a much cooler much more design centermuch more eccentric interesting rally cry for an arts community donating inshades of film it takes for the whole process you're a few films are gonnashake my head like this one because it

takes you from first meetings theproblem what we then four dead and then how that came to life and i should saythat this project was unique in the fact that we were creating thebrand at the same time that we're creating mobile app even spent a decadejust on dec stopped and said they were working with us to work out what's thebest way to change it desktop experience in a community that people love intoexperience in the mobile app and the brand all at the same time project that i'm story and thenexperiences for people so this story redefined that even with a side of ideaof bleeding breed you cut them open they

just bleed so they think abouttwenty-four 24 7 you know people that work there also the community a reallyreally devoted communities and that's all that they're thinking about that sothat they're about well but is a massive community for us it's all about helpingeach other out critiquing work growing as an autisticperson yourself and growing in a community remembered even on the website you knowpeople on that developed as artists and become professional artists and neverbeen trying to the ops just had a talent they might be in from a place or nothaven't had a support system around them

which really helped them nurture that asa talent but this online community allow that happened that ideal breeding andthe education of all and how they can make more people in the world aware ofthemselves and aware of this community in a way of myself as well so this mightsound like really that's the story these forwards what is actually a longerversion of this is behind it which talks about what police radar is about whyit's relevant tv what it means for the community what it means for 10 responseswhat it means for up-and-coming artists what it means to press and pr as a wholebunch of guys on this but as a captivating statement at the cia cmi allthese people in the organization

directors and head of marketing can tryto keep in their back pocket if anybody awesome what it is does know what it is what it does bleedsand breeds off thats its function in the world that's what is that for and then once you got that story it'sall about the systems that the identity but i faced the colors the icon and howthat will come together and how you can bring that together to make real senseand then once you've done that your go-to compelling kind of experiences really really relevantpeople like i said before and the brand

was all done hand in hand at the sametime it was actually pretty interesting because you know we we tweak things inthe app income of colors and make color differentiation and make them smallermakes things bigger and then that would repurposed back into the branding work likewise a brand new world coming upwith ideas like different types of angles across things and how that mightwork in and that was feeding back into the digital watching another project forthe bbc and they said project bbc news be used to it like this believe it or not channel online usualfrom the bbc one of most credible new

things in the world and this is this isfor you like you know twelve-year old waythrough 22 23 24 25 year olds it didn't look like that was what it was very veryconservative very normal very very bbc you could say so how do you bring theworld to bbc in the world youth coaches together and make some incredible andthis was the job that we had to revamp the way that this works and what happensto the brand of how does that come to my show you that journey you get the ideai'm sure you know film takes you from the beginning all the way through and itshows the different aspects of what we've done but it's quite considerablechange that we

different why that matters how you bringthat together as well how to stop move so that kind of experience that isunique and that gave us these really lovely kind of moment and then howcommunications both even are and actually last night in the uk picked upa few awards bbc picked up a winner award and i kind of commended and thingswere for computer arts brand impact towards that and then maybe some of youhave you can it's quite nice piece of work but it was set to us by fastcompany they came to us and said hey you're moving brands hillary clinton'sjust had this new identities happened when she launched the identity of thearrow love it some people hate you know

a lot of debate online but i said heyyou know if we if we gave you a short amount of time i think we have five daysoff we gave you five days do you think you could better or what would you comeup with that too is a brief we foolishly yes will do that and these results but ithink it's really interesting project and quite interesting to work this waywhen your name is relying on your own creativity to kind of see very busy wethink it is the film kind of tells the whole story so i just let it play butmaking rounds doing what it does in five days to create an identity for hillaryclinton as a reaction to the one that was out there

happening in london people to get thathappen in such a short amount of time all these other projects that i couldtalk to you about that i have really got time very big companies maybe wanna hearmore about netflix talk about it very much but that's something i can show youthe press actually this launch that worried in the communications businesscalled a calm and we've recently rebranded them i don't actually happenedin london basically launched yesterday there washuge kind of launch party and all that kind of stuff and it's being sort ofthings but i thought i'd like and then we've we've done this to end you get itas a film is a film about this new thing

we've changed questions questions have you ever beeninteresting areas we've done a better you know lots of charity work anddifferent stuff like that organizations ngo type organizations we've recentlydone a lot of work with an organization called the basic control internet public yes that's not government mythinking the early days of the internet would pass out by government tobasically designate suffixes the.com and.net everything i mean that's notgovernment as such but it's it's it's kind of a maybe the lighter end of worldis that what you workin hello i just

wanted to say i noticed no west you addthat there is a primary focus on type they there wasn't so much of a typefacefocus it was primarily on color and shape the repetitiveness and some kindof loop that was in the last video that you showed was that planned or was thatkind of something that has worked out like that well it's it's different every time youknow depending on the brand pending on the sector depending on the type ofbusiness area that someone you want two very different look and feel you knowkind of high-end restaurant compared to a record label compared to governmentorganization compared to telecom it's

all very very different things we alwayslook for in contrast but actually i found over the last few years when we'vebeen more comfortable with there being more and more in it so we're findingthat we do like common-law garnet and expressive identity system around it graphic devices devices or the other wayaround that stuff would be really combat lego be really life has been a couple ofprojects recently been one there's another one you should check out our website called housing where we seem to have just turned all the volumes up oneverything that's really colorful really vibrant it's moving all over the placethat logo itself is really alive there's

a vibrancy everything it might be justthe sector and the type of business dot com really wanted to feel nothing likeit had done previously it was a very sort of conservative looking telecombusiness and wanted to look much more people are much more friendly much morealive much more useful because that's where they thought they needed to behousing with in the indian mumbai market and so there's a great vibrancy thatvery colorful there's a real fight for space in advertising those things thatcame to life and it really colorful way to say we work with an architecturalfirm or so an art museum or something you probablyhave a very very different approach but

the repetitiveness you talk about thecase that i feel like that feels more repetitive because every single thing issort of showcasing what it's all about but actually the system that's where thesystem really kicks in like when i went down you when you try face when don'tyou have any weights which color combinations in which you notice thatidea really supported the imagery as well to what the hell are yet i noticedthat it was kind of color depend in primary colors like blue greens redsthose were like primary colors in the ad in and they ran all the way through thead and i think that's what kind of brought it through the whole thingtogether opposed to just using a hillary

logo it's read all the time other brands they don't necessarily haveto do the same thing or they work in a completely different way to get verycolorful brands where they don't really have an honorable color as such theyjust have a color palette that they can use and called upon at different timesjust very different netflix very red brand for example so yeah just dependsbut it's not true that you know what's right for one brand is necessary foranother fight the worst thing you can do those cookie cutter the same approachestime and just key role in that out it's got to be different is gonna beconsidered and the main thing is always

link it back to that story links back tothe story and what it's all about and the directions on that basis is headingin and you're bringing that to life and that's probably the main thing personal evolution as a designer how didyou get to where you are now two stages i got before i started the basis whichis basically an education and then almost as soon as i graduate we juststarted the business now i didn't know what i was doing then you know a lot ofboth just you know we're very confident cocky arrogant maybe but we honestlybelieve that we knew we honestly believe that we were actually never reallybelieved that we were talented is that

doesn't feel right but we def initselfbelief that we can make something happen and i was 17 maybe 18 years now track 1998 myself but you know in thattime there's been a lot of moments where we've developed his business people atthe same time we've been developing its designers so you know going from a smallteam of five people you're just all in the mix of ideas over comment on thebusiness over the comment you should spend what you shouldn't but as thebusiness grows you start fragmenting a little bit more fragmented but you startsaying well you're better at making businesses use your about it as i knowyou're better than that and everyone

starts taking different roles as one ofthe things i've been proud of in the business is our ability i think one ofthe reasons we've kept growing up is that the founders never limited thebusiness by our own talents and a lot of people that i know i don't know why theydo such a stupid thing today but because they started the basis of becausethey're the creative director no one can be more senior then you know they they they have to get lost in the workthey're also trying to run the business they you know that they're trying to dotoo many things and it's much better say well i'm getting this but you're good atthat they really are three years all the

families were getting at all differentroles more senior unless each other and we're all paying ourselves differentlybased on those roles as well armed the business so we separated this idea ofownership from our role in the business i have a row and i'm also a founder idon't have my role because you know i mean i think thats percolate down so youknow runs the bases now it's not me and it'snot found that it was a guided joined the business eleven years ago as adesigner level person and worked his way up and then when we needed someone elseto take the realms keep the thing real really pushing forward to the next dayshe was shy and lots of desire design a

community but i real veracity andbusiness and what a real interest in expanding our offer and making us morerelevant and continuing to grow the business that he was the best person togive the the rain stays so on on the founder by report into him on a weeklybasis he's my boss about that i'm an owner like me if i wanted but if you dothat you break your own business you break the system if you undermine anyoneat any point you know if you give someone responsibility and then take itaway from them as soon as they make a decision you're not gonna get anywhere ithink that's one of things that we learned early on so i don't know aboutdesign i mean i've never really call

myself a designer i think i'm a personwho started to cry if business and because of that i think everyone else inmy business things i'm really creative i've never really quite see myself as adesigner it's always been about the fight to get a business that works andhave great creative ideas and be in the mix of all that just make it happen sonow i'm just concerned with a hundred people making their career is reallygood for us is a business that can be quite tough you know when i by anyoneelse but not financed by anyone else we've resisted selling investment fromanyone else so it's a wholly owned independent business and so that's allso hard because every time to pound

whatever comes into the business youknow that's dollar that we have to side with regard to its getting a new personis it promotions people what is that harder in an independent business butit's also a good thing is it gives us the ability to take the places where wewant to take it for our people and for ourselves so we're not always kind ofworried well this other entity above us is gonna tell us to do which is whathappens when you sell your business bigger businesses they just take controland you lose control of the thing i have rebranded a certain company or brandtwice like more than one which was a cute product the cameras now but at thetime it was like an sdcard it was wi-fi

enabled the time it was quiterevolutionary camera and wifi connect and sending images back to your laptopjust from the sdcard is still quite cool thing if you've got all devices and theycame to us we came up with a new name for them we did the whole brand we spentthree or four months working on this thing they actually went for withinlaunched it and then then existing see left when someone else and they wentinto the slow moment of what we gonna do with it now what is what's happening andthey they kept going with it made into really successful brand but they cameback to us and said can we read can you rebranded back as i fight but we stillwant a different new identity in the

space of like a year we rebranded thesame thing twice they were always happy with what we did just that particularstart business there's also a pivot and changes in direction changes in officechanges in the dynamic in the business investors members leave other peoplejoin you know it's very hard to navigate all of that but we've done pretty welltrying to navigate but that's what i can think of and then we've got some kind ofgreat brands for them maybe they're like 789 even ten years old now so it's goingto be interesting to see as we get older maybe we'll do a bran twice a little bitmore often as much as you make a brand future-proofing we'd like to think thatwe do that in a way that it can get

rendered and work on things digitalmoving how to behave in the world you can't kind of forty everything is gonnahappen particular technology that quite often a brand will need a bit of arefresh the lines of someone that we did a while back we should be interesting tosee if they tweaks here and that you had your question i had was when your farmengages with the company do they come with a distinct story or a distinct ideaof what they want or is the process that he was as the gauge with you whereverthey do have distinct idea or not it's something that quite often come to usand say we need to talk to them and work it out we agree that they need that butthen what about this other stuff and and

before we can do any of that was thestory you know sometimes what might look like a website just so i just want a napreally quickly in talking to them and spend a little bit more now than downthe line you might be able to save some money if we do a bit more because youknow you're rushing forward with this and we all know your russian and youknow you're writing but if we would have liked not slowed down but we willbroaden the spectrum will be about what we can do that might mean more of itsgonna need to not be changed think they just won a logo or they thinkthey just want a website or they think they just want a nap or they just wannacommunications things to happen but in

order to create that sometimes you gottaunpack a little bit more to really get out of work effectively and everythingthat happens is quite a long time will come to us and we'll do like that jobyou've just seen but then they'll say okay we want to make more effort we needto do more communications product coming out what needs to happen to that so wetend to work hand-in-hand with swisscom which is doesn't mean anything here butit's the largest telecommunications business in switzerland and that's nowapproaching an eight-year relationship i think it's seven and a half years orsomething and in that time we've developed the the parent brand but eachand every time they've come up with new

product or any of those things i comeback to us kind of make sure thing they gonna do is being taught in with thatbrand was a bit different shade is kind of different every time you know alsosometimes it will be like i want you to do that thing you did we need completechange of everything you know their very own board with big change sometimes it'smore like the marketing team in the brand team inside an organisation needsto be a big change but some of the people above that don't necessarily seeit that way they just think about our ads go to be made this year butsometimes that's not the case i sometimes the communications project canturn into a brand new project we've had

it the other way around as well wherewe've actually been engaged and won a brand new project and then when westarted working on it we quickly realized the client didn't really wantthat they wanted to comes project we're not doing advertising work stream onthat of course we had two adjustable numbers and all that kind of stuff as wewent along with it was less or more effort in different ways how did youfirst find your clients coming out of school yes an interesting question i mean weactually did do jobs why we're a college not many and they were very small but wequickly realized that every time we did

a little thing we met someone else wefocus on what we called our ecosystem which i like it really now if we get ourecosystem happy we communicate what we're doing we share with them theirshare with other people and a lot of kind of you would say but i think wemade our own luck so we go to law ministry events even if we weren'ttalking we just be there and you meet people and you talk to people and youshare and you do that kind of stuff the other thing that was really great somartin's college you went to this is a super good college with a very highlythought of reputation and it's also a lot of people that graduate from theregoing work in industry so you kind of

get introduced to those people would youkind of graduate of spies like all-boys club or something all girls club orwhatever you want to call it but that's how someone outside it would work to itbut it's really just contact from within the college so that was one way to do ittoo and then the other thing is just friends of friends that had something todo to us it didn't matter if it was a friend of a friend you only had a fewhundred dollars to get something done or is a friend of a friend who actuallyknew someone that ran a big cable company was somehow ok to introduce usas really bringing creative although we haven't really done anything as i wantoffers cable company in london that used

to lay the actual cable in the groundand that was one that is a big website redesign managed to convince them thatwe knew at that time we had no idea how to make a website but we told the clientwhen you have a website and they somehow believed us so then we had a few weeksdebating the brand's first website was just great naivety point on the whole website whichis great with a little nap in the top corner at that time when we made offerswebsite we don't know if it's only one image but we put up a huge gray imageyou know you're talking about where and then somebody else in your said you knowyou can just be one great pics on repeat

the whole screen would like you can dowhat you know so we were really but we just believe that we could do thisduring a couple of these projects you mention collaborating globally i'minterested to hear how you do that you know especially during every phase orworking on little tiny details on a mark it's gonna be a little tricky but it'ssomething that we become good at in the last three years before that it wassomething we wanted to do but it's quite difficult thing to bear in mind is thatthree years ago san francisco with kind of still tryingto find talented people and all that kind of stuff that was a little bitahead get san francisco to work but as

thats got better and as thats go clientand it is growing there's there's a better opportunity to collaborate andshare your less like this and we've always talked about the businesses youknow it's kind of one studio east me once you get here occasions that it wasonce to you i three locations and that's 14 like asians and there's a mindset thebusiness which is like that we've been told by to everyone for their skillswhich treated there in you can click so i'm just going to see everyone and thatchanges daily a free-lance even a common basis theyget put on their own they believe they go out so then the numbers on that thinggoing up and down all the time so that's

one great basescu's in the business ofsomeone says you look thing and you don't know who he is youcan just type in many pops up and you can see his face which to you but ithink it's more of a mentality thing to actually want to work like that i thinka lot of other agencies told to work like that but really thinking abouttheir own studio quite often they have their own profit loss and they've gottheir own sort of targets to hit where we thought that estudios you knowtargets but because we're all like i buy one thing and the founders in thebusiness understand that will be more effective if we can swap resources andwork on things collaboratively than that

can work out i mean technical toolsreally we're just on the final google hangout tons and tons of meetings allthe time it can be frustrating for the first five hours in my day in about sixdifferent means exhaustive projects or different things are happening in thebusiness and the crossover times beginning about i just happens to lineup with the end of london style which is all in the middle of new york state sothey have a soapy in the middle of that i which is like tons of meetings londonhas been the end of the day which means we have a bit rough beginning and thenwe used to resource as studio but now we resource in in in in new york and londonbe resource across the taste areas so i

whether you're in london weather in newyork where in san francisco you could be working on a new project and then wealso have a global resourcing which looks at things from a type of thingsthat pitch which is in new york and for people in london team working on thattwo people in new york working on that and to people in san francisco and weall have to me that time we're just talking and then basically everythingonline google drive two presentations that we can work onand comment on and all that kind of stuff which is using whatever tool worksfor us this secure and works for everyone and it's really easy to get to

but it's more of a mentality and i knowa lot of other agencies have tried to do that but to talk about it here but ifthe chain you know there's no advantage money wise wise to work collaborativelythat's why it's so bright that which we have a natural advantage i think is abelief inside the business working different perspectives from around fromaround the globe as well i'm sure you want to know more about the actual tocreate a mentality and then she's in that order yes i'm a little curious whatare some examples of brands out there maybe haven't worked with that you thinkare doing it really well expand on reading sort of like dynamicfuture-proof brands are going to live on

for a long time you gonna look at theirwork and it's a really good job you find out that in general has been pretty in everyone's doing and how long will it be before another way i don't know i thinkit's more of a question to them and whether it's good or bad orindifferent i really like the hbo brand and a lot of the stuff that's happenedrecently particularly in the i don't work this happened in particular in thefew if any of you guys are now that's what the experiences i think a lot ofthat work is really really great very simple worked really well

question that always look at them andthink that rather than you know i mean there are few agencies i respect a lotand they say anything that they come up with seems to be really really goodthat's a great agency called us to that game monument valley phenomenallybeautiful game you can play but they do a lot of work and that stuff at themoment i saw them to a post about experimental work they're doing for cardashboards and user interface and human interaction design is happening in inthat area that's really really progressive they really great company sofriendly basis and then there's another one in london in the uk can check theirlittle bit more of your buddies on i

call them but they're they're like supercool they like the old stuff and all the old german staff and everything inbetween there a bunch of great so i think they design is just like beautifulthings that just a magazine called the hour which is like a magazine aboutwatches and ecology and really simple idea where they've just taken the heightyou in the arm place them at twelve o'clock o'clock 6 o'clock nine o'clockpositions on the front cover of the magazine to me that's just lovely and wehad actually get that through a climate get them to do it is normally there's amosque had in everyone's worried about seeing the words our in that sort ofthird parties are not covered up because

it's based only i think you know smallermore artsy time magazine shops work the rest of them i just wanna bereally interesting as designers we're always like to change that but there wasalso a little bit kinda like the fact is really quirky we like the worst type acpossibly have really horrible overbearing colors like every news on inhalf an hour start-up guide but there was somethingquite quaint about that that's going to be interesting to see like how it rollsout for them i'm actually start seeing patients you know if you look at mapsnow hang out and then everything i'm you kind of everywhere it's already justnormalized in my head in the space of a

week or two weeks or how long that'sbeen it interesting that can do that can normalize something that's reallydifferent and then just a few days it is accepted that redraws of it which ithink are interesting but i find all that kind of redrawing of something on adesign blog quite tedious if that happens to all work when we do it youknow toppin also people with seemingly timeon that comment and invest a lot of time and energy in the comment to alert towork on it but the kind of missing the point for me and this is where yourealize i'm not designer is that to me it's the getting that through gettingthat game that surely alive in the world

brilliant thing about it so any bit ofwork this line and get signed off and then get pushed into the world have ahappy and feel like you you love that work you've done something close bysomebody else's eyes or the waiting is a bit off to me that doesn't matter ithink it's more about obviously when we do stuff there arenone of those issues before it goes life but you know i think it's pretty girlthe people's work on that basis the conversations that were happening behindthe scenes is a lot more complex and just doesn't really mean anything to me questions must be very sort of

31 business design when you designproducts how many of your internal collaborators our spreadsheet guys andcan use the dynamic between collaborating with less creative andmore mba years i mean i society well first i don't i think people thathappened been training creativity i don't think that means that wenecessarily have a power that other people don't have a spreadsheet of youwanna put it it's not in my experience that's not true it's not true thatdrives people to serve our creative and other types of people who say they'rejust doing the thing that they somehow got training and then somehow god andthen go to that doesn't necessarily mean

that they can have very good creativeideas so you know business we we've done some scary things like give money whenyou draw it you see here enjoy it with us what you think is like in workshopsand that's quite scary anything could happen but because anything could happenyou get some really interesting results even if they draw something reallyreally ridiculous only something in it which is which is a true that theybelieve about their business ended very badly now kind of design putit is not there's no sora sensibility and there's something about it from astory perspective which is always really really interesting so that we know wejust treat everyone like like everyone

it doesn't have i t week we try and just treat everyone thesame get them involved in the same in the same way more expensive that there'sa big difference in creative people you think that's a truism that would youthink that's the thing we like to tell us to make ourselves feel better about i'm not in the creative industry you aredifferent i mean quite fundamental things that's kinda permissions on itsdrawers and stuff remember underserved roles with it because they're not surethat prices are not necessarily done it before so we can kind of control thatrain whereas if you work with someone

who's done a few ads before but isn't agreat person and they probably got a lot of knowledge picked up on the way whichthey keep applying which therefore means they think that's the way you dosomething but it's just the way they did it and they repeat it so i've beenconversations where someone told me that caps is easier to read and capped biggereven easier to read somewhere along the line they pick that up and you kind ofit might not to fight that it's better to show them what they want and thenstart a different way and normally they change their minds together they evensaid it was about this kind of people

senior rebranding i have no idea i'msure they have emails off i started getting emails of someone who was partof a campaign here in the bay area invite me to a few things but a littlebit like it wasn't reals i never really followed up on it was there was aquestion i wasn't that smaller company that doesn't quite havea following of apple but could desperately use a rebrand but at thesame time they're worried that people won't if they rebrand recognize themanymore do you ever come across that time yeah i mean all the time doesn't matterhow big or small business

believes that everyone loves god is wellrecognized and it's got great equity sometimes thats true sometimes that'snot true remind them in a conversation somethingmust be wrong and to just blindly say that it's not the logo is not theidentities is kinda not right investigating i mean there's a big wemake it like we get briefed by klein and we start drawing that isn't what we doabout the total time of a project is all research what else is out there whatcomp what comes in they done before how are the boys this ok your red whichother competitors red therefore is ready good idea is there another caller therecould be an opportunity in this sector

strap lines what were the other commsyou know we do a massive work or big chunk of work on the budget of coursethat's all about looking at all of that kind of stuff and so that's why you sawand even other opportunities they didn't come out very well and scream butbasically observations and opportunities that we've learned from our researchwhich is something to be mindful of as we go for your product we were my clientwe get the client to agree with those and we remind them of that as they gothrough but taking that first step i mean one thing to do is we never say toa klein if they're not sure about their logo we wouldn't go into is well worthof you we can change your logo tons of

projects that we've done on that firstgreen you sort of all the identities i mean we didn't design with a lot of guysbut we did all the times that work for them because i wouldn't tell reallyfamous walk in tonight we needed change the logo and i think i share the same respect tosomething that small medium-sized i don't ever really answer the questionbut there's no changing things we used to talk about was what was going tohappen if you don't change anything and the the the the answer was yes i reallylike about eighty percent a month so that would just continue what are youhappy with that and he was like no i'm i

want to do something i want to changethat stuff like well changing it might help that happen at least put you in aframe of mind personally that's your thing to talkabout brand everyone's like how does it how is it relevant to people sometimesour branding project is just as much about making everyone in business feel more committed more on boardfinally they've got a way of communicating to the world which feelsmore like the way they work every day you know it's about kind of bringingthat stuff but the you know sometimes the not changing is the thing that wetalked about that and that's the thing

that kinda get screwed it up a bitbecause that's why the original source may be considered in this and thendecide what we're not going to change anything basic so i did not changeanything that nothing will change in the business and some radical businesschange like a different type of product or so i think brand can definitelychange emphasis and bring new point of view on your brand that weren't therebefore and every great interest in the short-term and the long-term can giveyou a brand this able to communicate in ways that you need it to netflix reallywas just our brand doesn't work when we're trying to use it please help uslike changes bit

very much a crossing of mark differentconversation when i started getting the start of the funds are usually limiteddo you have any edition or any guidance on when it is precisely because a lot ofit could be but when vendors branding become important for the success of thistype have any guidance ordinary to try one of practical view is that brandingis my personal view so i think the technology you come up with theuniqueness of that thing and the way to communicate that to the world kind ofhand-in-hand important but i know full well that when you gettin money or notgetting money or whatever that is it's all about wow i'm not going tospend that money on brand because i need

a second program or need a head oftechnology or whatever those things are but that doesn't mean that that problemyou still you still got that brown would actually we're not cool cool brand debtwith why i was talking about it i still play with a hundred percent sure aboutit but i figure doesn't include technical debt you know that istechnical debt is on that is when you say they think it works well we knowthis but it doesn't work instead of fixing it now let's do all these otherthings and kind of get rolling and we know that we've got six months from nowwhen we get a bit more money we can fix it then i think the same thing ishappening with the company's brand so

where do you put effort into your logoor not intercoms or not i think about the realquestion is whether the point when you wait because you all the way down hereand change it really really like that i could cost you if you're reallysuccessful millions of dollars to change everything whereas in the video it might cost a fewhundred thousand but you're not going to have these big events here but it mightbe a time when couple hundred thousand that's another a campaign or the earlythat's what it might be able to get someone into it you know we've done themquite small mouth you're seeing that

have been done but even at that pointit's kinda like spending the 200 when you've only got maybe fifty or a hundredand in total anyway so it's really an individualchoice and i think but what i'm saying is a trend is investors appear moreemphasis on brand because they've seen how important it is for other thingshave been a success the ones and good productive been a success not just theones i've got good product and they can see consumers kind of attachingthemselves to product that's got a great brand more than the ones that don't saythat more emphasis on finding entrepreneurs coming to us even if theydon't really know what they're talking

about because it had people becausethey've got this great idea that all that walking upright and even withoutreally knowing what it is they know it's an important things that difference inopinion as a friend but i think we believe it's really don't really have alot of money you can do something a little while but there comes a pointafter maybe or maybe halfway between first and second where your investorswill start saying right when you get this prime right now but i think if youcan be on the front edge of that and say to investors now we need more money forbrand can be good for you can see he probably kept it more money put in kindof make that happen because they're all

of the month consumer-facing kinda like somepharmaceutical b2b maybe less the more consumer facing is definitely the moreit is not clear but i think that things were mine is a differing you are thatyour brand if you don't do anything unless you're just trying to like youknow when you're done but if you got something where before that brand isgonna be part that makes at some point designer but they're more amorousself-taught designers out there worked with some of them are you havesomeone your team what did they bring versus those with a more conventionaltraditional art background design

background as yourself self-taught didn't do any education andit just kind i find that i don't know how to answer that was the differencebetween the two well known as i was before she died if you but he wasn'tprofessionally trained he came in a lot to want to be a designer be kind of halfdone a bit of architecture and then decided that wasn't for him and was inthis or no man's land right now and he just kind of almost all its architecturestuff look at it you know it's been crazy people who are you know maybesomeone else to make a table or something some of his guilt he ended upbeing really really great designer very

touchy feely and i did a lot of work himself in musicindustry like different things are a funny enough there's a guy in sanfrancisco a while back and he wasn't trained either but he was trained littlebit you know i decided to give up and got only three into designs i and he wasreally good too i don't know about this architecture kind of know a little bit about designerthink it's just this pressure but invariably most people to join us havehad an education in design some point i was just just the way it rolls and theyhave a pool that area to discover about

something about them around the back ofall that stuff i spose in the sketch books and in all the stuff that therethat i mean i don't know i don't think we've had that many self hundred-percentself-talk designers work for us i think most people have come out the designbackground and education are not trained as one so i i knew i was given some ofthe ways to think so i don't know what do you think the difference is interesting things people do bad time ofthings you actually want them to bring into the studio so we first went intoprocessing and 3d printing and all the

things we do a lot now that came frompeople on our team has been interested in doing experiments and ends of shinedother people to syria will i get really brings you can do a bit more that wedecided to make our own 3d printer you know certainly you've got somethinggoing on this site we got people in the business that designers but they're alsomusicians that's really interesting because we need to make a little soundthink something they can actually do that so we don't want to limit peoplebased on their training it's more about what they mean to you know some of thegood singer we need someone from some of the guys voice is that i do some of thevoice overs as well so it's all about

bringing whatever skills you've got tothe table and someone to do that people tend to keep their there are otherthings away from work because it's easy bringing any guests less precious youknow if you like panic at all you don't really wanna do music becausein that makes music work and then like in the same way that you do certain poster that you saw when you'regrowing up that made you choose to do what you do and then my second questionis after working on a project from eight to 12 hours in a day with your buddiesyou go home and still design and i mean is it overkill like you know on some ofthe stuff that you want to do you know

how do you balance that so the firstquestion is one of those kids i was drawing i always loved drawing i wentthrough a phase of thinking i wanted to be a painter and i want to be a fashiondesigner and i'm looking like a 910 you know everyone around me to tell me icould draw very well and i was really embarrassed about it wasn't like aproper skill to me it was we have actually showed me and i was really analbum called thing with pictures of it was a mystery t because there was notlike information you can find out about these people so the imagery and thetouchy-feely nature of that thing music video those who are things that got meinto really thinking where people will

i'm sure that will be really great wayto use my creativity sounds like a bad bet than painting better than theseother things so there was like i'm covers music videos and all that kind ofstuff and that became very influential stuff to me so i wanted to make as i sawit wasn't a powerful images that would make other people like me go thingnormally attached to music that's how i got into an energy find more out youknow and you get noted through that little bit and then you get medicationand it kind of opened up to all this other stuff and the second part of thething was about these two design when you got home

yeah daytime and then coming home andstill designing sometimes i can't you just feel like azombie it's like two o'clock in the morning work at 10 and 16 hours onmultiple projects you know how do you balance that with your personal time ithink in the early days i used to do that it would be like doing all the timethere was no and it was all the same thing then asi've realized that he stopping at six o'clock or five o'clock or whatever itis is actually a really good idea because doesn't drain you so much forthe next day there's only so much crave negu have the longer you keep game witha fine it's not you know this amount of

time where it's good and where it's notreally good early in the morning coffee a battle for the second coffee terriblefor myself and about 45 o'clock a stock gaining some interest but i do stuffit's just it's not quite the same stuff i don't bring work home and keep workingon it but i do other things so luxury watch brand at the moment but i've beendesigning watches month and that they suggest different faces different stylehand if renderings different places different dimension differentcomplications that we can add to watch and then i've just bought my brotherhe's doing this with me and my wife me my brother my wife we thought thismilling machine so we can actually made

out all the metal parts for the thingand we've got the mechanisms and we're going to start of making prototypes ofthese watches now it's not designed as such but it's still a crave yeah yeahand if i'm not doing that on my computer upstairs with logic mpc and i'mbasically just making beats with plump at things thank you so much for your presentation my question i'm curious to know aboutwhat mistake you made starting out that you learned the mostfrom and if you sort of a common trend of mistakes with designers coming outthere is one time when i got a lot of

energy for something and i wanna get itnow really quick and if it's not a very quick i'm just decided done or rely onthe rest of the team kinda like make it happen like starting things and i'mreally good at starting things i'm really bad finish them so they arewatching i'm gonna stop that my brother my wife gonna have to finish thatthere's no way i'm gonna have time or anything so this kind of mistake that ithink one of biggest mistakes i was trying to be a professional rather thana creative with crimes so i was in a meeting with my co-founder and climb andi was presenting and actually he and i have only been in about fivepresentations together as we normally we

don't see eye to eye on almost anythingapart from having a beer and a hog get but if you know he likes the blue one ilike the red one just the way it is we're totally opposite he said but idont potentially cause i really professional dress differently and i andi was tryna like be professional and can i mean he's just doing all things likenational you know i'm kinda nice these days i wasn't personal but he was like awaste of everyone's time you know they're paying us to be the crazy people meeting they're not paying us to beanother i think with the way he feels like they're not paying it to be thatthey desperately need what we've got and

we've got the ability to be like seearound corners for them that they can't see jump over obstacles that they can'tget out their vision you know as a creative person in abusiness makes you can kind of help navigate around a lot of that stuffthese kind of really angry at me for trying to beat them and i learn veryquickly not basically from that point on not to do that so i never dressed upagain and i try and tell it like i see it because if you wanna hear youbasically not doing the job you need to tell them what you really think of whatyou really think in the context of all the ramifications are gonna come fromthat but at least you need to be given

them a very honest opinion all the timebecause you don't do that at this and probably the thing is gonna be a successas i think its designers we have a gut instinct on something right thing is yougotta find the best way like bring that to life in a way that's going to keepeveryone kind of happy so i think that was one of the things with just tryingto be something you're not just be yourself this is on his out that i likeeven looser and allow the me and they can't you know me they drop they dressreally really different and i'm just the way i'm so i think it's important to bethe way off your very well thought out then you need to be a potential trenduse of common mistakes that a lot of new

designers make you better though a lot of repetition in which i find alittle bit annoying school schools where you know you see a portfolio and it'sgreat to see another student from that school is that funny i was just some ofthe world to a bit different and all these things like to make an educated indesigning that way replicating anything so if you happenedto being on a course which is like that i think the three other stuff in when iwas getting trained they talk about it take you sketch books but i think theyreally work anymore i think you've gotta like other working that you thinkrelevant eu relevant to your life things

that you really think you're great andreally help bring things to life what what what in thanks to be adesigner and i can remember what happened there was a point when irealized that we were hiring people that i considered more talented than myselfand therefore i was more used to the bases helping drive that business for itand create more of a narrative story around our own business so that's when istarted doing more talks and presenting things and talk to the press and allthat kind of stuff but i think it was just a natural thing you know game busiest let's get more people inand therefore there was people to do all

of that great work and that's what ithen became more creative director because i wasn't working in the earlydays films i should do music creation used totake with photography basically doing as we added people youknow obviously i wasn't the best editor in the world and i wasn't the best typeof the world's best designer in the world but i like to think that thepeople we have working with us are getting them to do those things they'rekinda more passionate about you know more about this was always a good thingand i gave me the ability to concentrate on other things like we are representedhow we begin the world and all of those

kind of things i don't know if it was amoment it was like a series of different moments coming to the usa was a bigmoment for me because only host you single-handedly in some respects i wasresponsible for and i was responsible for growing whereas before you know italways been five founders and then i always had like lots of people around meand then suddenly i was in a different country with people on the team which ididn't really know and then trying to get that happened and how do you do that moving brands that was definitely nottrying to do the work because i had to do that team give them confidence intheir own ability come up with that

without your phone is you majority of you go through this will beyour design then you'll be more kind of seniors on and then you might be acreative director which means you kind of give give give the avenues to rundown other creditors ironically as i do this don't you that you're doing thatand then if it's your own business you got the business you're thinking aboutas well and even if it's not often you go from director to more of a partnerand then they might make you like head of a studio gradual process and everytime you go for it used to be that was originally the thing that you why yougot into the business in the first place

i see some people comfortable with thatsome people want and it's ok to light not progress you know if you really wantto cross marks that level craft the marks be the person in that she didn'twant to please them are you know it's up to you but i think he was to make adecision whether they want to go on a journey that's more toward conductbusiness or they can to keep on a journey that just just in the design ofany kind of recommendations to like future grads in graphic design workreally hard make really great work concentrate on not just the way it looks what it means what's the story behind itreally really important and then just

get really good at communicating talkabout your work as much as how good you are being executed is being talked aboutit being out of presenting being able to you know get someone to believe in whatyou're saying is is really the moment we're greatdesign become something they can make something happen rather than just bedesigned and then i just be really dogged about meeting as many people asyou can i get as much work experience as you can paid doesn't matter just try and workagencies in different places that you think very credible trying to get inbecause every time you work somewhere

for a week or two months or whatever itis you can make contacts and contacts gonna be the things that turns yourcareer eventually could you just meet people should just you and recommend youand send you to different places and people come to us and you know we don'treally have for someone right now but this other agency should try they're allthat is sites as it's all about the network around you don't stay in yourpocket design you gotta be like that when you're doing the work and whenyou're making things happen but you gotta be all about what's going on andthere were about pestering people you know people to get lost if they want tobut designers and creative people tend

to not really be like that to be quitehelpful so you can get things happen not so i respect for that year underminingyour own potential you got a car like pushes out and get yourself out thereafter this and then you've talked about the story you mentioned it a few times can use alittle bit more about that and how you clean that information because i'mcorrect me if i'm wrong i kind of get to getting the creativity starts with thestory about creative that story as well get that creativity going yeah i mean

crisis is define and create and thenthere's nothing to thrive but really the 30 s s is the kind of assessment i wastalking about which is not desktop research looking what else is out thereother brand communicating all that kind of stuff but they also tons of likeinternal stakeholder interviews that we do where we work with the client toidentify people or certain roles that we need to talk to you again honest opinionabout what the brand is about what we represent is brilliant tool as well wefind out like these negative about changing his positive about changing allthat kind of stuff and you get lost a lot of opinion from within the businessand we do that in a one-to-one sense

there's no kind of worried about whatyou're saying and also totally confidential so we reveal what peoplesay but we don't reveal he said and that kind of stuff and then we basically useall of that context in workshops so once we gotta love that will put it all onthe world works for people and say right let's go through this and what do weagree with what we disagree with it can be quite i am looking statements fromhis own organization some of which is really negative some of which is kind ofmediocre some of which is not what he thinks or she thinks the business is allabout etcetera etcetera etcetera and thateveryone gets a sort of a lot of

stakeholder interview that happens a lotof simulation of that into opportunity and then there's the stuff we workedthrough that we've cried as well where shopping is a big part of what we do wedo a whole bunch of workshops sometimes our whole day long sometimes a half ofthat you don't remember to date as well where there's a series of differentexercises which on one hand is a report of the assessment we've made in thetypes of things that we've discovered that these workshops with some of thatmaterial to try and clean out the leadership or it was part of the projectwhat's important to them and what do they disagree with what we gotta fix andthen we do a series of other things like

visual workshops story workshops wherewe all sit down and try and write that story or like what we do things like wewill never know the whole nation different people who want to say we'llnever do this whenever we will always different things likethat which some people feel like really a waste of time and two others they getreally really into it but it's never wasted time it's full of suchinformation about how the organization sees itself and sees itself compared toits competitors then we take all of that and start to write this story and thestory is normally a short narrative five-word be kept in the pocket computerthe strapline all the time it's not

really meant that way it's meant as aninternal rally cry to everyone in the business i this is what we do butthere's also this long form narrative which is much more detail about thereason why that's right and the types of things that we do and how that goes imean there's a couple other people in the organization and michael internalcopywriting and he has a lot of the interviews that we do and that kind ofstuff as well a lot more details around the house and we also makes them sosometimes need a lot of interviews but not workshop others need tons ofworkshop a lot different stakeholders and hardly any interviews such so justdepends on that organization the size

and scale what's the best way to band ornot spend the money in lieu of you know everything that we've gotta get down tothe project timeline project in in that phase that did you get to a point whereall in agreement about what we are we're all in agreement that this is a storythat represents that yeah we got colorized do that as wellyeah we and we have we've also got consulting on which is in that kind ofbusiness design part of what we do so there in that we've got some very smallpeople with some very small education behind them that kind of helped steer inthat project yes not just solely designed fighters way of going about itvery strategic and other various its

fine and my question was above samething but let me rephrase it a little bit if it's one when you when you wereanswering that question you were talking about established business and companieswere a lot of stakeholders and you can draw stories are them what about mergingbusinesses start-ups do they have to have a story to build the brand whatcould be the story how do you work with that kind of situation i think i think idunno i think it's possible to get our organisation only there's a reason orstory behind why an emerging businesses set up it's even that they've learnedsomething from work in other business and think that it's currently done wrongand they've got a better way of doing it

more efficient way to create a newproduct because certain time something in order manager program and somethingthat felt like a good thing and made a new thing but it's always a story behindit like a reason why it's important in the world you know me like one of thoseguys can get home on new year's eve i was really frustrated with the taxiservices and can book anything and say just gonna try right some sort ofprogram that's going to be a cool up this thing and that's kinda like thebeginnings of the thing but early on that can be used as part of the storyyou know why that store even now i still can

thing to hear about why that frustrationdying okk system wasn't fit for the world and didn't work you know didn'twork very well so let's show our stories all about doing a better way to a moredynamic wife that's a sign whether you're making a luxury watch coming upwith some company that makes bags or or or piece of software think it's the samething there's always something at the heart which is the reason why not watchthing so i'm thinking sexy companies with school stories around them and theybecome successful in case like like yours you're doing something on yourrole in the free time and designing clothes washers how do you

transformative brand and how do marketedwhat's the story behind it you just wanted to try to do it you just likethat story and you start thinking about it there is thank you know luxurywatches it too expensive right now maybe they could be made with the same qualityfor a lot less price so maybe it's just about the fact that there's so manywhereabouts right now how can you bring that back to something that's gone anystage is really early stages when it's very in your mind and your very own workinto the thing that maybe you don't quite have the story emerges from doingthat well i find interest in this time working out manufacturing process tomake a watch but i'm also dealing with a

brand at the same time and they areforming each other so i'm kind of have a bit of fluid it ready for a while beforewe define it hard and i think there's always that face i mean that we like buti'm not because i wanna do a bit more research i mean why i'm really gonna doit properly engage me brands to pull that talents into it buti'll be the client not ready yet we're still prototype we've got a first watchcase and what kinda looking at you know that kind of stuff go to rejoin the mallthere's my 3d renders an hour when the things actually made out big as ithought smaller or bigger mean i think we're gonna have a good years worth ofjust tweaking and trying to find

identifiable that we think might watch unique beforeit touches were trying to find out what that is all we do have a story in thefact that we wanted to be one of the few british manufacturers making very highquality things but i'm not answer your question please read our program whichis used extension and no other thing that isreally important we are some areas that you have anyincrease in case you have any kind of portions of the program in those foldersyou have my contact information and i will be able to provide you withanything that you would like in case

you're interested in classes with us normally we run 6:30 to 9:30 andsometimes saturday crisis we make it easy for working professionals in termsof taking courses with us we'll make it is in the classroom lebanese almost oneconcern is grad when you go to grad school so we have great professionalsreaching our course they're working professionals they just come on page onecourse whatever the experts does how we run it over here and another great weare actually filming this child will be on our website especially for those ofyou that carrying a little late so you can see the beginning probably a weekand a half or two which side thank you