jonathan alferness: so anyway. real quick, i'm john alferness. i work here at google, andi've been here for a long time. but more excitingly is davidlebovitz, whose here with us today. i'm really fortunateto be able to do this, because david's actually areally good friend of mine. my wife and i have knowndavid since the early days where my wife wasa food blogger.
and david certainly, being oneof the most quintessential food bloggers out there, is somebodythat we got to know early on. david, for those ofyou who don't know, is just quite anilluminary in this field. david worked at chezpanisse as the pastry chef for about 13 years. he pivoted thenin the late '90s, i think roughly 1999, wherehe started writing more, starting with blogs.
and if you, i meani know for us, probably 1999 felt likeblogs were in full swing. but david was really one of thefirst food bloggers out there, and remains one of the mostinfluential food bloggers that we continue to see. flood bloggers. david's written, i don'tknow how many books. probably more thana half dozen or so. it's somewhere inthe back pamphlet
of this book, of which i'veused more than a couple to actually bang outsome great recipes. his ice cream book, if youhaven't bought it and tried it, kicks ass. it's really, really awesome. anyway, david's now been livingin paris for the last 10 years or so. he does tours of paris,he's introduced us to our favorite chocolateshere in all the world,
and showed us your wonderfulshop, which unfortunately had a big fire recently. david lebovitz: explosion. jonathan alferness:explosion, and then fire. but she's ok, denise is ok. anyway, david ishere with us today to answer a few of my questions. but then more importantly,answer all of your questions, probably ask you guys somequestions too about google
and what we can do for david. but really, this is justa huge pleasure for me and i think for all of us. so let's take a quicksecond to welcome david. [applause] david lebovitz: well, thanks. everybody, i havefriends-- cindy over here, who testedrecipes for the books, works at google for the book.
but whenever i havegoogle [inaudible] they go oh, that'snot my category. jonathan alferness:we're really going to evading questions at google. so we'll see how good youare evading questions. david lebovitz: as a blogger,i'm getting better at that. actually, i need to getsome tips on that too. jonathan alferness: so let'sdo the history little bit. i mean, chez panisse,if you ask me,
is one of, if not the mostquintessential california restaurants. i think it reallychanged the pace of how californiansthink about food. and it just kind of keeps going. anybody who's eaten thereover a long period of time knows the consistency that'sthere, and the qualities there. what was it like working as apastry chef at chez panisse? i know you have all kindsof great anecdotes to share.
maybe you couldjust share a couple. david lebovitz: well, istarted there, actually it was right when californiacuisine was just taking off. and i was actually workingupstairs in the cafe. and nobody knew at thetime what radicchio was, what goat cheese was. and people were comingin and saying like oh, is it like tofu? i was like no, it's goat cheese.
and they're like,what's goat cheese? and people didn't know. and it's kind of funnyhow it's evolved. people used to ask us how we gotthe oranges red, because they were blood oranges. and it was kind of funny,and it just kind of took off. and now radicchioyou take a flight, or you go todisneyland, and they have radicchio on the salad.
and i just had lunch here,if chez panisse didn't exist, you guys would probably all beeating egg mcmuffin sandwiches rather than allthe beautiful food. so i give chez panissea lot of credit, but it was a veryexciting time in america. also coincidentally,with the rise of google and technology, people beingmuch more aware of what they're eating, what they're doing,what they're thinking, what they're sharing.
and that was also thebirth of food blogs. when we all, istarted in 1999 when the word "blog"didn't even exist. and people thought i was crazy. my friends who wrotebooks thought i was crazy. but getting back to the originalquestion of chez panisse, it's actually beenreally interesting seeing how the bayarea once again, has been so innovativein promoting food,
promoting technology. but we sort of tend to makeit really useful and relevant. so instead of just being thismovement and for the sake of having a foodmovement, it was like no. this is about feeding people. this is about having farms. i mean you think the idea ofhaving a farm outside of new york city. is so crazy. but now it exists, and youhave this farmer's market
with all local produce. and you go to safeway andthey have local straus milk and stuff. and that's all reallypretty radical still. jonathan alferness: yeah. and recent. it works here in the bay area. we all kind of embrace it, but-- david lebovitz: who'dhave thought it?
jonathan alferness: --it'samazing how much it's spread, right? david lebovitz: inever would've thought that i'd have kale in my teeth. i'm like-- we used to eaticeberg lettuce salad. jonathan alferness: just toriff off that for a second, do you think californiaand the bay area continues to be oneof the main places where food is sort ofinnovated from like the quality
of ingredients, andfreshness, and organic, and everything else? what do you see as you, i mean,you get around the world a lot. david lebovitz: right. jonathan alferness:do we have competition that we should be worried about? david lebovitz:i don't think so. i think actually sanfrancisco and the bay area's actually very conservativein terms of food.
people don't like trends here. i'm not going tomention any names, but there's been a lot ofmolecular gastronomy stuff. and the people havecome through and they've sold out audiences intheaters, and so forth. but nobody, if they hadopened restaurants here, nobody would have liked them. because people really appreciatevery simple, basic food. going through thecafeteria here,
everybody's eatinggrilled asparagus. it's not fancy,there's no foam on it, there's no, there's not turkeyand clam ice cream on the side. jonathan alferness: nostir fried lamb brains, or anything like that. david lebovitz: it's avery conservative food community here,but in a good way. and i think it's really,like you go to zuni, and you get a really goodhamburger or roast chicken.
and you're making this face,people think about that-- jonathan alferness:sorry, i love zuni. but you know that. that's where we go. david lebovitz: yeah, youthink about that food, and you just go wow,it's really good. and it doesn't need to be fancy. just let the ingredientsspeak for itself. jonathan alferness: it's one ofthe reasons i love living here.
david lebovitz: but qualityalways speaks for itself. there's a lot of stuff outthere as everybody knows; you work for searchengine company. the good stuff rises to the top. jonathan alferness: well,that's why alice can get away with serving a bowl of fruit asher main dessert course, right? some of the best fruitthat you'll ever eat, but completely undressed,completely naked. what was it that,what was your pivot?
what made you say well,i'm an amazing pastry chef and i love doingthis, but damn it. i want to write full time, andi want to make this my career? david lebovitz: i turned 40. jonathan alferness: ah, i see. david lebovitz: restaurantwork is really hard. and during that wholecalifornia cuisine movement, i guess it was the '80s, '90s. everybody wanted to be a chef.
and i still hearthat from people. when i worked in the kitchenat chez panisse's, people who are lawyers who used tocome in the kitchen and go, i would love to do this. and you're like,do you really want to do this for minimum wage? and do you really wantto peel apples all day? yeah. maybe have dinner parties andsubscribe to martha stewart,
build a nice kitchen, andwe all live hand to mouth. so there was a lot of peoplewho are getting into cooking, myself included at the time,we worked really, really hard. somebody recentlyasked me on twitter, how do i get to do what you do? i was like, you standat the back of a kitchen and you roll dough for 30 years. but when i hit 40i was like, what am i going to do withthe rest of my life?
i couldn't stand up all day. i was just tired. i was really, i'd done thesame thing over and over. and one thing, oneequality americans have that i've learnedfrom living in europe, is we're really good atreinventing ourselves. we're very goodat saying you know what, i'm tired ofbeing an architect. i want to open a cupcake shop,or let's start a search engine,
i'm going to write a book. we do that, and we justsay i'm going to do it. and if it doesn't work, it's ok. but we're notafraid to try stuff. so i just thought you know what? it's time to turn the etch asketch over, give it a shake, and start again. jonathan alferness:is that what, was it sort of the breakin switching to writing
and your pseudo midlife crisisthat sent you to paris as well, or was it-- i mean, i knowyou've always loved paris. and i'm not surprisedthat you live there now. what brought you to paris then? david lebovitz: idon't really know. i didn't haveanything to do here. i'd lived in san franciscofor 20 something years. i was like, you know what? i want to go somewhere else.
and i thought, well paris--i was never a francophile. i wasn't like oh my god, mydream is to live in paris. audrey hepburn. i just wanted to go, i thoughtit'd be an interesting place. and it was. it's a really goodplace to write, because nobody bothers you. people, you can stay in yourapartment for weeks and months, and nobody thinks that's weird.
cindy's laughingbecause she lived there. and it's true. you could sit ina cafe by yourself and you're not distracted. and also for me, ideveloped as a writer there. because everythingi do there, if i go out and get a loaf ofbread, if i open my front door, there's material. there's a story.
everything i do, buyingshoelaces, getting yelled at, buyingcheese, whatever. coming up with a recipe. jonathan alferness: you'veshared a lot of those stories-- david lebovitz: too much. jonathan alferness:--with me and my wife. i don't know that they'reall appropriate for a work audience, but are therea couple anecdotes that you can sharejust to sort of comment
on the quirkinessof living in paris? david lebovitz: well,it was interesting. i recently wentout to where they harvest the salt offthe atlantic coast. and if you lookat a map of france from the air, google earth, youcan see all these salt marshes that have been aroundsince roman times. and the people hand harvestthis salt, and it's amazing. you go to a store hereand you buy, and it's $12.
and we went there. we spent a weekendbecause i wanted to see the salt being harvested. and we're sitting in thisrestaurant right on the coast. beautiful salt marshes,beautiful piles of salt that they'd all faked. and on the tableis industrial salt. the worst salt in the world. and i said to the waitressi said, it's kind of funny.
it's right out, you have it. and they're like, oh. they just didn'teven notice that, because it didn'teven occur to them. so that kind of stuff, beingan outsider is actually funny. because my partner's french,and he's pretty funny. have you met roman? jonathan alferness: i'veheard a lot about roman. i don't thinkwe've ever met, no.
david lebovitz: and soi get motivated by him. he thinks i'm funnytoo, most of the time. jonathan alferness: that'sgood, because you are. the other one thati'll throw out there, i don't know if david remembers. he'll remember the place thatwe were eating at in paris. but we get to, what was thename of the restaurant, again? david lebovitz:the black plates. jonathan alferness: we're goingto the ketchup on lobster.
david lebovitz: yeah. jonathan alferness: so you'regoing through an exquisite meal in paris, and davidand i will have rack brains for thename of the place. but it was one of theplaces on the list that my wife knew thatshe wanted to go to. and of course, youmeet up with david and you magically getinto these places. and we're workingthrough the meal.
really elegant, fancy, high end,three star sort of french food. and we get to thelobster course. and everybody's excitedabout the lobster course because the threeof us love lobster. david lebovitz: lobster'svery expensive in france. jonathan alferness:that's right. and it can be really good. i mean, the frenchknow how to cook lobster, which isnot overcook it.
but then that lobsterwas drenched in a, and how would wesay it in french? what was the name of the sauce? i it was straight up, itread as, "cat soup sauce." and i'm like, whatthe hell is this? and it was juststraight ketchup. and the waiter comesout, and is really, really proud of the saucethat they put on this lobster. because it was ketchupthat was made specially
by this friend of his,et cetera, et cetera. and the three of us areeating it trying to enjoy it. but again from an outsiderperspective just going, well shit. they just put ketchupon my lobster. i don't know, just ican imagine all kinds of fascinatingstories like that. let's pivot a littlebit to the book. i want to make surewe give folks a chance
to ask questions, as well. david lebovitz: sure. jonathan alferness:this is, you've written a whole bunch of books. you've largely focused morespecifically on cookbooks. now, you're takinga pivot to more of what i would kind of deema memoir cross cookbook. what was it the sort ofmotivated you to do that? why the bigger journey, themore work, the, i don't know.
david lebovitz:more work is the-- jonathan alferness:yeah, you just wanted to do the more work? david lebovitz:do the harder way. yeah, it's thechez panisse thing. i always find theharder way to do it. i'd written a memoir,when i moved to paris, my blog kind of took off. and a lot of peoplewere saying well,
you should write abook about your story. so i wrote a book at the time,which was very well received. and it was kind of funny,and very young and fresh. and we change. people look at my old recipes,i had a chance to revise a book. and i was like oh, i don't makethe brownies like that anymore. i do this now. and that changed, so thatchanged, and that changed. my life has changed a lot.
so i'd proposed abook to my publisher, who i love, ten speed press. just a book about france,another book about stories. and the publisher,aaron, who's great, said it needs to have recipes. i was like [crying]. and i'd spent eight monthsworking on the proposal, which is what you normallydo when writing a book. and he said well, weneed to have recipes.
and to make a long storyshort, i realized he was right. because as a cook, mystory is through recipes. my story's through cooking. i cook all day, andthat's who i am. i'm a cook. i've been a cook sincei was 16 professionally. well, i was a dishwasher in arestaurant-- dishwasher bonanza sirloin pit, andthen the guys who tended the meat in the naugahydeaprons used to terrorize me
with the flamingstakes and stuff. we're going to throwyou on the fire. and now i'm like,where are they now? i'm in google. jonathan alferness:come, join me. last question thati'll ask, and then we should turn it over tofriends in the audience. i've heard that youhad an opportunity to redo your kitchen.
i know your kitchen foryour already small parisian apartment was not very large. jonathan alferness:i don't know. talk to us a little bitabout the kitchen remodel. what you did, whatyou're happy about. david lebovitz: ok,well the short answer is when i started the remodelingproject, a friend of mine in paris said, promiseme you won't write a book aboutremodeling in france.
i said, ok. and then that all the stuffhappened, and it was pretty, it was very difficult. i was working on thebook at the time, and actually if anyone here hasever bought a house in america, it takes 30 days. and france takes abouta year, just to close. it's really stressful, andit's all very difficult. and then it neededto be remodeled.
and i thought, i'vedone remodeling here. i'm like well, let'sjust put this here, and this here, i wanta nice big kitchen. and to condensethe story, people were walking bylike on the street. they were lookingand they were like, are you buildinga restaurant here? i'm like oh, that's the kitchen. they're like--because i have a big,
i was like i want abig area to cook in. traditionally actually,french people always had the kitchen apartfrom their apartments. you never wanted, i meangoing back in history, the maid always made the food. like you didn't, it'svery class orient-- you didn't want to bearound the smell of food. so they have this,the new concept is, they call it cuisine american,or an american kitchen.
which is open with a big counterand everybody likes that, and you see thestools and stuff. but it was very challenging. a lot of stuff,you're tech people. i said, i want usb ports. we're doing the electricity. so i came home oneday, and there's these cords hangingout of the wall. it was like the wrong way.
so i was like-- i was like, no. i need to plug my stuff intothe wall, not my apartment into my computer. so we had a two weekargument about that. and there's a story in the bookabout how the new contractor saved my life,because i found out there was co2 gas beingpumped into my apartment. and i was wondering whywas sleeping so well. i was like, i've beensleeping really well lately.
12, 24 hours. jonathan alferness: well, that'sthe trick to sleeping well. maybe i just need-- david lebovitz: well, idon't recommend it, but-- jonathan alferness: so why don'twe open up to everybody else? my guess is lots of goodquestions for david. there's a mike floating around. who has some good questions? david lebovitz: or evenregular [inaudible].
jonathan alferness: ok. david lebovitz: if you have anyquestions about the recipe-- jonathan alferness: and ifyou don't have questions, david's going to askhow to get higher in the search results ranking,how to drop his adwords cost, why the street viewpicture of his home-- david lebovitz: showsthe bathroom, shower. everyone's always like,that's not my department. jonathan alferness: m-hm.
audience: hi. david lebovitz: hi. audience: i'm a big fan. thank you for all thewonderful recipes on your blog, and beautiful photos onyour instagram, and google+, and everything. david lebovitz: oh,i'm a fan of google. [inaudible] feedback. audience: really appreciate it.
and you really mademy last trip to paris with all the recommendationsand things on your blog. if you were movingback to san francisco, what are some thingsyou would really take from your paris experiencethat would maybe transform the way you wouldlive here again? david lebovitz: the way i shop. i'm used to, i mean i walkeverywhere, and i shop. i go to the bakery everyday,and i go to the cheese shop,
and i have people at the market. and here, it's soeasy to buy stuff. you go to the supermarket,you drive up to a place, and you just buy everything. and i would still reallytry to hold on to that, like getting my milk fromone place and cheese. and even though itdrives you crazy if you're trying to do acookbook, because you know. it's like, i need an orange.
and the store'sclosed until monday, and you have to wait untiltuesday because they don't have anyone to stock the store. and cindy's laughing becauseyou remember this stuff. it's like ok. so just going more small scale. and actually, eating everything. when i left therestaurant business, i was a little chunky.
and i was always a thin person,and i made a conscious effort to lose a lot of weight. and i was tryingto eat egg whites, and not eat so much fat. in france, i eat everything. and i've kind of lost weightuntil this trip right now. and i've just been eatingribs and stuff, so. i probably wouldn'teat all this stuff that i used to eat inamerica like tacos,
or burritos, and stuff. does that makes sense? no lobster with ketchup. audience: so it's atwo part question. as a technologistand a home cook, i always have this love haterelationship with sort of tech, how much is going to beuseful in the kitchen? most the time it'suseless to me, but-- so it's two part question.
one is, what other kinds, if youhave any tech in your kitchen, what is it? and then the otheris if you don't, what would be great to havethat maybe doesn't exist? david lebovitz:you know, i don't. years before the ipad cameout, i did a story on my site about ecookbooks. because there were somedevices that had recipes. i'm like, you know,is this going to work?
are people going to want tolook at a tablet and cook? it even if you couldhave julia child with you on this thing saying cutup the chicken this way. and when i write recipes,i write them all longhand. and even downstairs,the test kitchen woman, she's still writing longhand. so i don't really haveany tech in my kitchen. i don't use a computerwhen i'm typing recipes. that's in another room.
what i would like is,and i know this exists, but i'm just too crazy to do it. is a voice activatedtool so i could say, chop one onion, so i didn'thave to stop and write it down. or something thatwould record what i do, and condense it so that icould just have it right there without havingto go through all this recordings of stuff. audience: thank you.
jonathan alferness:i can, is that sort of what you had in mind? or would you broaden yourquestion as well to like, do you have a kitchenaidmixer in your kitchen-- audience: no, it actuallywasn't about the gadgets. well, there's aschool of thought that says you only need achef's knife and a paring knife, david lebovitz: exactly. audience: so i'mmore on that school.
but you could broaden it took, when you're not cooking, and you go onlineto look and see what other people are doing. maybe you're looking for arecipe or online services-- although just to yourpoint about dictation, we definitely have that. but it's not structuredfor that use case. david lebovitz: yeah, yousee these refrigerators that tell you whenyou need milk.
it's like, i don't need that. i can open the door. but i need acomputer to write on, i need a computer togo search for a recipe, or search for a technique. so a lot of this innovation inthe kitchen this kind of silly. and this whole idea of achef's knife, a paring knife, and a pan is really great. i've gone to people'shouses, i was actually
somewhere the other day. and they had turkey deep fryer. it was a machine justfor deep frying turkey. and-- jonathan alferness: that'shighly useful, right? david lebovitz: it's highlyuseful one day of the year. it's people who have these verybig kitchens, and so forth. and i lived in a really, ihad a really nice kitchen here in san francisco.
and then i moved to avery small place in paris. i didn't have amixer for a year, and i just had a couple pans. and i wrote two books there. and it was good,because i could write to people who havesmall kitchens. light up your wokburner, and heat up six gallons of ricebran oil, and then fry the quail hearts until, andyou're just-- all those kind
of books kind of freak me out. because i love when peoplecome to me and they go, i made your recipefor madelines. they were great. i made your vanilla icecream, it was great. and that's what it's all about. and i think in spite ofhow great technology is, it's just not, cookingis a visceral experience. that's why books, iwrote this book because,
if you need a recipefor chocolate cake, you can go online and find one. i wrote this bookbecause i wanted people to read about my life,read about the recipes, and pick it up, andtouch it, and feel it. i chose the photographer,because he's very, he's good at getting the sortof the textures of vegetables, and meat, and paris. paris is not necessarilya beautiful place.
it is, but there's alot of funkiness to it, like the ethnic neighborhoods. i live near belleville, whichis an asian neighborhood. and people are like,there's asians in paris? i'm like yeah, there'sa huge neighborhood. there's indian neighborhoods. and i thought those short ofshowed the diversity of paris, and i wanted to showthat in the book. jonathan alferness: otherquestions from folks now,
a few more hands going up. audience: so two things. one is i wanted toadmit, i've never made a single oneof your recipes. but that's not because idon't like your recipies. david lebovitz: thebooks are for sale. audience: no, no, no, no, no. it's because i have todeal with my family, with over a dozendifferent food allergies.
milk allergy, milk,wheat, dairy, eggs. david lebovitz: butyou probably have recipes that you makeover and over again. audience: absolutely david lebovitz: that's great. yeah, that's what you do. audience: and i actuallylove you for your stories. so i'm really excitedabout your new book, and i read your blog religiouslybecause of the stories.
and what i imagine yourrecipes would taste like. david lebovitz: ok. audience: the other thingis that i had a question for you is, how do youbalance that with google, you can find like you said,chocolate ginger cake recipe, right? which is one of those iimagine, yours is amazing. but you can search for amillion of those recipes. so how do you differentiateyours with all the other ones?
how do you balance makingit special enough, but not so esoteric thatnormal people will, oh, that's way too many steps. that's way too many ingredients,that's way too weird. so how do you balance that? david lebovitz: wellthe way i've actually, and this probablysounds terrible, and you can turn thecameras off when i say this, but i'm seeing a stratificationnow on the internet.
there's so much content. if you want that gingercake, you type ginger cake. but whose recipe is it? who's written this recipe? if you go on a sitelike epicurious, they have a test kitchen. and the recipe works,there's someone behind it. if people go to mysite, i test the recipe. i test them two or three times.
for the book, at leastthree times, if not more. and then cindy gets therecipe and goes over them. i vet the stuff. people want curated,vetted content. there's so much stuff outthere that's not good. i want my name to be, i'vebecome a trusted name. i didn't do it intentionally,but i have that chops. because i'm a cookbookwriter, as well. so you can turn thecamera back on again now.
but i actually try to cookfor a global audience. a third of my readers on mysite are from outside the us. so i'm very conscious ofif i call for a recipe, i write in grams,if i use molasses, people are going tosay, what's molasses? and i'm very conscious of that. and that sort of endearedme to a larger audience. americans, we tend to beenclosed in our country. and even thoughgoogle's international,
the internet makes us, we stillwork within our own parameters. and i'm always constantlytrying to enforce this idea, suggest this idea,that we need to think about the rest of the world. how people in england cook,what they use, and so forth. does that answerthe second question? audience: sort of. just, there are lotsof recipes where they use very hardto find ingredients.
david lebovitz: i actually-- audience: especiallyliving in france, you know? david lebovitz: i actuallydon't use ingredients that people can't get anywhere. i search a lot on the line. i always make sure thatanything in the book is, and actually, i try tomake sure everything's available in the community. there's nothing moreannoying than making a recipe
and go, oh, i have tomail away for the spice. i do ask cindy, i've writtenbutchers or called butchers, or emailed, i guess, in texas. i'm like when you get aham hock, is it smoked? can you get onunsmoked hem hocks? so they're like, yes. but things likesausages, i really want, and i give suggestions. for example, i havea cassoulet recipe.
and everybody'slike cassoulet has to be made with these beans. and they're theseharicot tarbais beans. and in america, they'reprobably $30, $35 a pound. and it's hard to do arecipe to tell somebody, buy two pounds of these beans. because it's annoying,and it's a peasant dishes. it's not, the espritor the soul of the dish is to something thatanybody can make with,
that's what french cuisine is. it's regional foodtoo, what's available. so i try to encourage peopleto use what's available. and there's only oneingredient in the book which is salt cod, whichi love a lot, which you might have to send away for. but other than that,everything else is, i really strive to makestuff that people can make. i've seen a lot ofchef's books with the 1/4
cup of squab stock, andthis-- i'm like, ok. they're just showing off. or that's how theycook in a restaurant, but that's not howpeople cook, i think. jonathan alferness: it's ok. here in the bay area, saltcod is kind of the same thing as on endive these days. so like-- david lebovitz: they couldn'tget it at camino yesterday.
jonathan alferness: really? jonathan alferness: oh, strange. jonathan alferness:see it everywhere. what other questions? audience: so, i've beento paris several times, but my wife's never been. she's fluent in french. barring an invitation toyour place, where would you suggest, what do you suggestwe would taste, or a place we
would eat, or i thinkwe'll have a kitchen. what should we makeourselves to understand paris or to be surprised by paris? david lebovitz: ithink a couple things. if you're going to rent anapartment, which is great, eat bread and cheese. the bread and cheeseare outstanding. and you get really good breadand cheese in the bay area, but it's not the same.
just eat a lot of cheese,because it's spectacular. and for restaurants,it's getting harder to find a traditionalrestaurant. because people don't eatthat way anymore in paris. we ate at this bistro. we had some deer stew and fortwo days were like, oh my god. i'm still digesting it. but there's a lotof young talent. like septime, 6 paul bert, wherethey're doing fresh ingredients
like small peas, flowers. but not silly, but verybeautiful things, like whoa. jonathan alferness: if youwant, we can go play pool. david lebovitz: yeah,we're doing it after. jonathan alferness: yeah, ok. [inaudible] ball pit? david lebovitz: six paulbert, septime, and wine bars. a lot of americans are a littletimid to go into a wine bar. but that's where allthe young people, those
are the bistros of today. that's where theyoung people hang out, people go for casual meal. you can get charcuterie cheese,a glass of wine, or two, or three. that's fun. you don't have tohave a reservation. the people are nice,the young generation is much more accommodating.
and they're happy tosee you, and so forth. audience: thanks very much. jonathan alferness: whatother questions do folks have? audience: right here. david lebovitz: ihave a question. what is the cue ball doing? oh, cindy, you're back. cindy: i'm back is this on? i was wonderingif you could talk
about any particularlycontentious topics on your blog, or topicsthat are eternally popular. just sort of things that alwaysstrike a chord with people. david lebovitz: yeah, i'm likeblogger chef, pastry chef, slash referee. so sometimes i havea couple things. well, whenever i goanywhere, everyone's always like oh, you shouldhave gone to some restaurant. just like the should'ves theshould'ves, you should'ves.
and that's always, likewhy didn't you go here? i'm like well, becausei'm here for a day. so that's always apoint of contention. people, they think i shouldgo to all these places and i can't. the authenticity police. i've recently had afew run ins with them, and they've tried to bust me. and that's a really big thing.
there's a lot of people online. everybody's anexpert, and they all want to point out thatthey know more than you do. which is often true. but once again, likei was talking about. thai food, like food changes. cassoulet is not,somebody wrote to me recently one of these things. they said well, i waslooking at your book.
and i'm not going to buy it. because it's a bookon french food, but there are somenon-french recipes in there. there's tarjine. and french people eat tarjine. it's like americanseat hamburgers. hamburgers are notamerican, they're german. cassoulet is beansfrom the new world. beans are not native to france.
so people, we'retalking a little bit about different cultures. not everything'savailable everywhere. we're very fortunate in america. if you need parmesan, if youneed pecarino, you can get it. but if you can't getthe bouillabaise fish, does that mean youcan't make bouillabaise? no. because bouillabaiseis a peasant dish
using fish from the region. so you use what's available. you don't use what they use inmarseille, because it's silly. you live in san francisco. so the authenticity police,i'm flipping over the word, you can edit that out. that's been sort of apoint of contention. and i address thatnow in blog posts. and i say, this is anauthentic, but i live in paris.
and we don't get this,we don't get tomatillo, so this is what i use. and that's the best you can do. and get your-- i tell peopleif they don't like it, they can start theirown blog and write about how i'm doingeverything wrong. i won't link to it, but--and you guys don't either. i have friends at google,and they'll cut you-- jonathan alferness: lower.
move the algorithm. audience: i wantto thank you again for your blog and your books. i love them all. you mentioned you movedto paris to learn. i'm curious whatother countries, or maybe evenregions of france you would want to spendmore time in, and learn more about their styleof cooking, and eating,
and so forth. david lebovitz: i love the jura. people think france, theythink paris, provence. because provence is veryaccessible, especially for californians. because the foodis great, it's all vegetables, blah,blah, blah, garlic. but the jura is the mountainousregion where they make cheese. comte cheese, [? mondoora. ?]there's these wines there
that you don't get outsideof france very often. they often have a funnytaste, almost sherry like. a little oxidized. i've been there a few times. we went once, and our car rolledoff a cliff, and it was pretty. they're like, thishappens all the time. and i remember my friend and i,our car's rolling off a cliff. and we're looking at each otherlike, are we going to die? and we're talking aboutit, and he's french.
but it's a reallybeautiful part of france. i'd like to learn moreabout alsauce too. they have a really, theyhave wonderful wines. and people thinkoh, riesling, sweet. it's like no, it's not sweet. it's very good wine. i don't know anything about it. so i'd like to gothere and learn more. and that's how you learnabout stuff in france.
you go there and yousee them make it. and now i know a lotabout comte cheese. you say [? compte, ?]but in french, you say [? conte. ?]i don't know why. but that's how ilearn about stuff. i go to places. i've gone to placeswhere they candy fruit. i've gone to cheesecaves, and stuff. and now i know.
i'm like wow, thisis fascinating. [inaudible] jonathan alferness: whilefolks are queueing up, some additional questions. you want to spend justa minute or two talking about denise acabo and thefantastic shop she has. and then, maybe go intothe story a little bit about the recent tragedy,and where she's taking it. i'll just realbriefly set up that i
think one of david'sspecialties has been, i mean clearly desserts, pastrychef, et cetera, but also in chocolate. and i've learned, althoughi know very little, i've learned mosteverything that i know from talking to david. david goes really deep. all the way into, butare you actually making your own chocolate?
are you buying itfrom somebody else to make what you have here? and he understands thingsat the level of people essentially roasting beans,and making chocolate. in fact, you were atdandelion chocolate just the other day in sanfrancisco, weren't you? david lebovitz: it's funny howsome people say "dan-dee-lion." jonathan alferness:or what is it-- david lebovitz:how do you say it?
i say dandelion. jonathan alferness oh, i wassaying "dan-dee-lion," i guess. david lebovitz: it's ok. it's like tomatoe, tomato. jonathan alferness:yeah, i guess so. and they're oneof the few places i think in the bay area thatactually makes their own, makes own chocolate, right? but denise acobo has thisamazing chocolate shop
in paris. and it was, i mean, it'sjust so stuck in our memories as one of the placesthat my wife and i'd love to visit whenwe were last there. we brought our kids. and she's an amazingwoman walking around, pulling out so the besttreats, chocolates, candies, that you've everhad in your life. you want to just talk a littlebit about how you guys met,
and some of the, like she's gota hold of special chocolates, but she had to begto get a hold of them and all this kind of stuff. david lebovitz: it's theonly 80-year-old woman who kisses me on the lips. like, ok. actually, the dandelionpeople are great. they actually came to paris,and i showed them around. i didn't know them.
and they were like,we're thinking of opening a chocolate place. and i was telling them, theused to own [? plaxo, ?] i think, and they sold it. and that's what americansare really good at, in reinventing ourselves. and they did. i was like well, you know,it's going to be really hard, and blah, blah.
and they opened, theyacknowledged me effusively for influencing them,which i didn't really do. they did it. but it was great. so they're a verygood example of that. but denise acobohad a shop in paris for maybe 35 years calleda l'etoile d'or, which is "the golden star." doesn't sound very sexy inenglish, so you use the french.
but she was curatingcandies and specialty treats from all over france. and the store was likea little antique shop, and she wore a little pigtail,like little girl pigtails, a tie, kilt. have you? you've been in the shop. oh, no. jonathan alferness: she'slike quintessential,
like what you would expect fora little old lady in a candy shop. david lebovitz:but she's lovely. she loves people, sheloves talking to people, she loves tourists. she's like, americans areso great, everybody wants, she loves talking to people. and there's acouple of chocolates that she, she wasthe only place that
carried burnachonchocolates from lyon. lyon. and she said, i got downon my hands and knees in front of the owner. and it's like ay, it'san 80-year old woman. when i was in herapartment once upstairs. and she was like, yeah, toulouselautrec used to live back here. and i'm like, wow. and about two monthsago, her shop,
there was anexplosion underneath. somebody was working on the gasline, and the shop exploded. and the pharmacynext door exploded, and the whole floor collapsed. and she was in therewith customers. and luckily, she's ok, but shethat she saw the whole floor collapse. as a testament to good buildingmaterials, a lot of the shelves are marble, so theyprotected the chocolate.
but the shop was destroyedand is destroyed. and it's very sad,because she's 80. and she's really lively,she's very alert. and she really missespeople having this store, it's her whole life. jonathan alferness:but she's not in the process of rebuilding it? david lebovitz:well, i had talks with her and herdaughter, and they've
thought about ecommerce. jonathan alferness: ecommerce? david lebovitz: ecommerce. jonathan alferness: here,in the states, maybe? david lebovitz: (frenchaccent) ecommerce. jonathan alferness:(french accent) ecommerce. david lebovitz: it soundseffective, i'm sorry. jonathan alferness: i like it. david lebovitz: i'll be oneof those annoying people that
comes back from europewith a british accent. but she wanted to, i'mlike, you're in france, and nobody's going to,people want to come here. and you went in the shop,and every single person i sent in that shopwas like, that was our favorite shop in paris. and that was actually oneof the reasons i started. i really worked onthe blog actually, it started beforei moved to paris.
but it was all these shopsthat nobody had heard about. they were mentionedvery briefly, but the magazineswere like, we want to talk about lauderee,and [inaudible]. i'm like, this shop is amazing. david lebovitz: it's up atmontemartre, near moulin rouge. and we had lunch. she's a fixture inthe neighborhood. you go up there andeverybody you walk by.
and people come outof their shops to say, i'm sorry whathappened to your store. so i said, let's dosome pop up stores. jonathan alferness: oh,kickstarter campaign, pop up stores, orsomeone like that? david lebovitz: and i want todo a google glass tour of paris. that's my question for you guys. it'd be fun to do a video inparis wearing the glasses. so just putting that out there.
you can have the glassesback when i'm done. audience: just kindof a hopeful question. you mentioned how bread hereis good, but not the same. and i agree. any tips on where we couldget a close approximation of the bread andamazing croissants that we in paris if you'veseen anything similar here? and if i can ask a follow-upquestion to something someone raised earlier.
i've really been impressedwith the community you've built, like in your blog. and i'm sure it'sa tough balance between the freecontent you offer, and the servicesand books that you sell, anything youcan share about. and i'm sure moderatingyour comments, so that it's a positivecommunity on your blog. and that's been really amazing.
so anything you've kind oflearned that you'd share would be really interesting. david lebovitz:these two questions i always forget themone after the other. you guys have reallygood questions. audience: sorry. [inaudible] more important. david lebovitz: ok,well i can do both, but you might have to remind me.
jonathan alferness:-baguettes and croissants. david lebovitz:the baguettes, i've actually been goingto b. patisserie. and in california,she's is amazing. the granola is amazing. she does really, evelyn, peopleare nodding in the audience. she's doing a really good job. she's working witha french bread guy who actuallylives in the bay area.
he's lived here a long time. but he's an expert on flour. so she's making these pastries,and they're beautiful. they're as good orbetter than france. josey bread, josey baker breadat the mill is fantastic. he's just a really cool guy. i visit him every morningbecause he makes me happy. the fact of building a foodcommunity, i was fortunate. because when i started my blog,there was like six bloggers.
and we all kind ofknew each other. and then we kind of builtthis sort of nucleus. and we still keep in touch,we still have the same values. always be honest, writefrom the heart, which sounds a little touchy feely. but really express yourself. be honest and open. i also don't letpeople push me around. i have an exit only policywhere i am the boss,
and i don't let people dictatewhat i do at all on my site. i keep it, i moderate it,not in terms of comments necessarily, but interms of the tone. when i write about, peopledon't like what i write about, i encourage themnot to read my blog. and it's fine, i don't care. they can, the home pageis fixed on my site. they should contacttheir browser, but i really make an effortalso to be fair on my site.
if you read my olderposts, i'm a lot more maybe critical of france. and as the longeri live there, i realize that's why theyare the way they are. and i've chosen to live there. and i have to learn why, andi've learned why they are, why they go on strike. i don't understand right nowthe pilots are going on strike because they want to take awaytheir right to go on strike.
so it does actually makes sense. jonathan alferness: oh,that works actually. david lebovitz: wramy head around it. so i've really triedto be fair, as well. and i make fun of myself alot, because i'm an idiot. i go to paris, andi make mistakes. we all make mistakes. and people come tofrance and they're like, oh it's ok if i take pictures?
i don't want tolook like a tourist. i'm like, if theycame to san francisco, they be at a fisherman's wharfeating soup out of bread. so don't worry about it. be yourself, be funny. it's ok to be a tourist,it's ok to make mistakes. and i make fun of that,and i write about that. if you guys come, we're notgetting the soup and the brand. jonathan alferness: n0?
david lebovitz: in paris, no. no baguettes. soup [inaudible] jonathan alferness: well,you looked at me pretty funny when i wanted, it's cheeky,but one of my favorites is a really good bowlof french onion soup. and i was asking davidlike, where the hell can i get this in paris? and he was like,you're in paris.
you're not going to getgood french onion soup. david lebovitz: well, it'sjust not something people eat. david lebovitz:that's the thing you used to eat at 3:00 in themorning when the bar's closed, and it's just that era's over. and you can get it,but it's not the same. jonathan alferness: he's right. because we went to, iforget where we showed up. and i ordered the frenchonion soup, and it was crap.
and he's, see? i told you so. well, it's likegoing to the haight, and experiencing thefree love movement. jonathan alferness:yeah, exactly. david lebovitz: there'ssome relics of it, but it's kind of [grimaces.]you're going to take a shower, and maybe go to thedoctor afterwards. jonathan alferness:literal relics.
jonathan alferness: we have timefor a couple more questions, i think. ok. david lebovitz: oh, hi. audience: hello. so after grad school, ihad a french roommate. and she introduced meto such great cuisine. oh my god, the cheese. but then i becamelactose intolerant.
so it's uncomfortablefor everyone involved. how do you stillenjoy french cooking, but not be able to handle cream? david lebovitz: i'mlactose intolerant. i actually, when i wasyounger-- i've never told them, i'm telling this on camera. but they didn't knowwhat was wrong with me. i was doubled over in pain. i was like 12.
and then i went to college, andi took food science classes. i'm like, lactoseintolerant-- oh, that's me. and i stopped drinkingmilk by the glass. and i mean, i'm not an expert. but most lactoseintolerants can tolerate a certain amount of dairy. i can eat icecream, and so forth. hard mountain cheeses,there's very little, if any lactose in them.
it's all been, i don'tquite know the process. but old cheeses, crumblycheeses, don't have lactose. goat milk, yogurt. i love goat milk, ilove sheep's milk. those, the lactoseis broken down. i actually don'tlike cream sauces. i don't like stuffthat's swimming in cream. i like butter a lot. butter in france iscultured, so i can eat that.
so move to france. people think i'm crazy fornot liking cream sauce, but i don't know. i find that cream, stuffthat's really rich, you don't taste the food. david lebovitz: there'snot a lot of stuff with cream in my book. i like chocolate,i like spice, i'd rather use thoseingredients than cream.
jonathan alferness: what's yourfavorite thing to cook at home? both for a meal when you androman are hungry, but then also for a treat? what's your favoritedessert to cook, as well? david lebovitz: imake a lot of sorbet, because i'm a californian. i go to the market,and i see fruit. and i'm justobsessed with fruit. i'm really crazy about fruit.
and i see stuff, and ican't help but buying it, and i buy too much ofit, and i make sorbet. and i always make fruit with it. i love cookies, i'malways making cookies. i make a lot of biscotti. i would do sable,the french cookies, the thin ones with the butter. with lime zest, or something. so i make a lot of thosekind of things for dessert.
the problem is if i make a cakeor something, i work at home. i'm always slicing pieces off. and i'll just scrapesome of the icing. oh i can't eat, thatpiece doesn't have icing, let me cut it. i have neighbors,and they're always getting cakes withtwo slices out. jonathan alferness:this one's left. like, thanks, i think.
audience: what's next? david lebovitz: what's next? well, it's funny. because people ask that a lot. and often, people say havinga book is like having a baby. and i've never had a baby,so i'm just imagining it. but once you've had ababy, you don't really want to be in that situationagain for at least nine months. so i'm taking nine months off.
it's actually really greatgoing around and just talking to people. because i spent so much, iput a lot into this book. and people saythat all the time, i'm like-- this was pretty,it's a lot of me in the book. it took two yearsrather than one. so i'm actually enjoyingsort of talking about it, and reflecting on it, andthinking about what i did. and i have an idea foranother book about france.
it's a whole differentsubject for me. i'm actually one ofthose people that if i want to write about it, youwant to be an expert on it. so i'm trying to learnabout this subject, but it's proving challenging. that's all i'll say. but it involves whisky. jonathan alferness: oh. jonathan alferness:fun, i like that.
david lebovitz: so i'm tryingto drink as much as i can. when's the meeting thisafternoon with the-- jonathan alferness: idon't know, we should go. david lebovitz: there'sa cocktail meeting. jonathan alferness: yeah, yeah. david lebovitz: i havea driver, it's great. jonathan alferness: i thinkwe're just about out of time. any other questionsfrom the audience? if not, i'll wrap upwith the last question.
where are we e fordinner tonight? david lebovitz:where are we eating? jonathan alferness: well,i know we're not eating. david lebovitz: oh, i wish. jonathan alferness:well, we still could. but where are you for dinner? david lebovitz: i'm actuallygoing to left bank in larkspur. they're doing a dinner for me. last night they did adinner at camino in oakland.
david lebovitz:which is fantastic. and tonight isleft bank, which is a more classicfrench restaurant. camino, i've worked withrussell for many years at chez panisse,whose the chef owner. and i just lethim do what i ask. he can do whatever he wants. and he added his own take tomy food, and it was great. i was like, wow.
i was like, now i needto go change the book and include what he did. that happened to me in seattle. but cooking's collaborative,and is changing. so tonight theysent me the menu, and the chef wroteto me in french. when french peoplewrite letters, is anyone in here french? there's a real, it's very hard.
did you ever have towrite a letter in french? audience: very, very formal. there's all these salutations,and you end it with, it doesn't really translate. but it's like, i end this withmy distinguished salutations. you're writing toyour cable company, like why is my bill so high? and you're like, i wish of you,"je vous en prie," yeah, yeah. so he's writing me thesethings, and we just email.
it's just [blows raspberry]whatever you want to do. so he's doing a much moreformal interpretation. and a friend of mine whowrites about vegetarian cooking did a dinner therethe other night. she's like, i didn'trecognize the food, because it was hisown interpretation. which is great, that's great. i love it. jonathan alferness: awesome.
well the next time, you and ican go to delfina or something again. david lebovitz: ihave an in, i just found out i have anin at the hottest restaurant in san francisco. jonathan alferness: which one? david lebovitz: i can'ttell you on camera. jonathan alferness: oh, ok. well, we'll do itwhen the camera--
david lebovitz: i have thechef's cell phone number. the power of the internet. i was like, does anyone know-- jonathan alferness: how fancy. david lebovitz: i'mnot going to go. i actually, i'm a firmbeliever in democracy. so i think i should havethe chance everyone else-- jonathan alferness: ihave to call bullshit on that, because i rememberlast couple times ago,
you called us. and you're like, canyou get us into delfina? and i think ourresponse was just that. if anybody can getinto delfina, you can. and i don't know,i think we ended up getting the reservation. but to hell with democracyon that one, right? david lebovitz: welli'm traumatized. because years ago,a friend of mine
opened a restaurantin san fransisco. it became really hot. she goes well, if youever want to get in, just tell them you'rea friend of mine. so i called up. i'm like hi, i'd like areservation for thurs-- they're like, we're all booked. i'm like well, i'm afriend of so and so. the woman said, oh sure you are.
after that, i was like oh god. i'm never doing that again. jonathan alferness: well, withthat david, thank you so much for coming by to google, wereally appreciate having you. david lebovitz: thank you.
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